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  Tsiyon News

Tsiyon Messianic Radio Newsletter  - Vol 8.21 -  03/21/6013 TAM  -  05/31/13 AD

Eliyahu ben David Bet Midrash

Dinah in Wonderland

Genesis 34

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Dinah in Wonderland

Dinah in Wonderland.

"Dinah ..went out to see the daughters of the land." Genesis 34:1

"Alice started to her feet, for it flashed across her mind that she had never before seen a rabbit with either a waistcoat-pocket or a watch to take out of it, and, burning with curiosity, she ran across the field after it, and was just in time to see it pop down a large rabbit-hole under the hedge. In another moment down went Alice after it, never once considering how in the world she was to get out again." - Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

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Listener Questions 

Listener Question - The Trinity?
I may get into trouble with this one.....Holy Order Restored, page 32, line 11 " ..the normal regurgitation of the trinity doctrine.." "Regurgitation" ????? That's a pretty harsh word! The Holy Spirit has intelligence, feelings, and will; He teaches, guides, intercedes, speaks, commissions, commands men, and restrains; He can be obeyed, lied to, resisted, reverenced, blasphemed, grieved and outraged...all of which establish personhood. Since God the Father is a person, and God the Son is a person, and God the Holy Spirit is a person, how can the Godhead be anything other than a trinity...separate but inseparable? How is it that such a thought "clearly misses the patriarchal truth so clearly revealed by the Son... or reduce the infinite God to a doctrinal formula trivializing Him", regardless of man's feeble efforts to express such a transcendent truth in human terms?

Tsiyon Answer - The Trinity?

Thanks for your questions. Let's give them a go.

"How can the Godhead be anything other than a trinity...separate but inseparable?"

I agree with you that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are separate but inseparably one God. I have no problem with that aspect of the trinity doctrine.

You asked; ""How is it that such a thought "clearly misses the patriarchal truth so clearly revealed by the Son... or reduce the infinite God to a doctrinal formula trivializing Him""?

I continue to stand by my statements you have quoted, as I meant them to be understood. Let me share with you what I mean. Following is a quote of part of the trinity formula that illustrates some of the problems with the trinity dogma.

"And in the Trinity none is before or after another; none is greater or less than another, but all three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped." [Quote from the Athanasian Creed]

"Co-eternal"? I have no trouble with that.

"None is greater or less.."

"Greater or less" in what sense? It must mean in every sense, because no qualifying statement is included. This is not Scriptural, since the Son clearly stated;

"..the Father is greater than I." John 14:28

Here, the trinity doctrine ignores a direct statement of the Son! That is just wrong.

Some might attempt to harmonize the Trinitarian claim of "none greater" with Messiah's statement that "the Father is greater" by adding more explanatory verbiage - but to do so simply illustrates my point; that the Trinitarian doctrinal formula trivializes God, rather than aiding a full revelation of God. We get a better understanding in this case by ignoring the trinity and focusing on the Scriptures alone.

"Co-equal"? Again, "co-equal" in what sense? Once again, it must mean in every sense, because no qualifying statement is included. Here, the verse already quoted (Jn 14:28) again seems to challenge the trinity formula, and there are many other passages as well.

For example, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 says:

"For he (the Son) must reign until he (the Father) has put all his enemies under his (the son) feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For, “He put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when he says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him. When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all." 1Cor 15:25-28

Here the Father, in some sense, is in a higher position, to put all enemies under the Son's feet. Clearly, "co-equal" does not describe what we are reading here. Further, the passage directly says that the Son subjects Himself to the Father.

Can the Son be eternally "co-equal" with the Father while also "subjected to Him?" If so, the trinity formula gives us no help in grasping any nuances of truth here. Instead, the trinity dogma simply trims away all Biblical truth that does not conform by declaring the Father and the Son to be "co-equal." Period. Again, if we want to get the broadest understanding in this area of truth we will have to abandon the trinity and turn to the Scriptures themselves.

What is the trinity missing that accounts for these deficiencies? As my book, Holy Order Restored explains, the trinity doctrine is blind to the patriarchal order of the Scriptures, as that applies to the Father and the Son. The Son Himself explains His relationship to the Father in these patriarchal terms, especially in the Book of John, but the trinity dogma ignores all of that. When it comes to the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the trinity doctrine is more of an obstacle than a help. I say, dump the dogma and concentrate on the full message of the Scriptures themselves.

[What the trinity formula should say is that the Father and the Son are equal as to Divine nature. This is true. What it ignores is that they are not, however, equal as to rank in the Father-Son relationship. On that score Y'shua always puts His Father above Himself. If you doubt it, read the Book of John noting the many verses in which the Son submits Himself to the Father. For more on that you can read Holy Order Restored by Eliyahu ben David.] 

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From Eliyahu

Genesis 34 tells us about Jacob's daughter, Dinah - a curious teenage girl, who just wanted to get a look at the latest fashions of the Canaanite women, nearly 4,000 years ago. Like many teens since then, she apparently thought the limits put on her by her parents were too restrictive, since she ignored those limits to visit a neighboring Canaanite city all by herself. By this relatively innocent act of self-will Dinah exposed herself to dangers she couldn't imagine and, as if nudging the first of many dominoes set in a row, initiated a series of events culminating in unspeakable horrors. While this story is worthy of our interest in its own right, it is all the more vital since it involves a prophetic drama for the Remnant of Israel today. All this is explained in our latest midrash entitled, "Dinah in Wonderland."   

Blessings and Shalom!   

Eliyahu ben David
www.tsiyon.org 
 

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