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New Video
for Tsiyon Members!
A new video
has been created by Eliyahu ben David specifically for
Tsiyon Members only. This hour+ video will bring our
Tsiyon members up to date with our latest preparation plans
for the 2nd Exodus. This has been posted in the Tsiyon
Tabernacle website for our members.
Please take a
look.
Listener
Questions
Listener Question -
The Trinity?
I may get into
trouble with this one.....Holy Order Restored, page
32, line 11 " ..the normal regurgitation of the trinity
doctrine.." "Regurgitation" ????? That's a pretty harsh
word! The Holy Spirit has intelligence, feelings, and will;
He teaches, guides, intercedes, speaks, commissions,
commands men, and restrains; He can be obeyed, lied to,
resisted, reverenced, blasphemed, grieved and outraged...all
of which establish personhood. Since God the Father is a
person, and God the Son is a person, and God the Holy Spirit
is a person, how can the Godhead be anything other than a
trinity...separate but inseparable? How is it that such a
thought "clearly misses the patriarchal truth so clearly
revealed by the Son... or reduce the infinite God to a
doctrinal formula trivializing Him", regardless of man's
feeble efforts to express such a transcendent truth in human
terms?
Tsiyon
Answer - The Trinity?
Thanks for
your questions. Let's give them a go.
"How can the Godhead be anything other than a
trinity...separate but inseparable?"
I agree with you that the Father, the Son and the Holy
Spirit are separate but inseparably one God. I have no
problem with that aspect of the trinity doctrine.
You asked; ""How is it that such a thought "clearly misses
the patriarchal truth so clearly revealed by the Son... or
reduce the infinite God to a doctrinal formula trivializing
Him""?
I continue to stand by my statements you have quoted, as I
meant them to be understood. Let me share with you what I
mean. Following is a quote of part of the trinity formula
that illustrates some of the problems with the trinity
dogma.
"And in the Trinity none is before or after another; none is
greater or less than another, but all three Persons are
co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as
is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity
is to be worshipped." [Quote from the Athanasian Creed]
"Co-eternal"? I have no trouble with that.
"None is greater or less.."
"Greater or less" in what sense? It must mean in every
sense, because no qualifying statement is included. This is
not Scriptural, since the Son clearly stated;
"..the Father
is greater than I." John 14:28
Here, the trinity doctrine ignores a direct statement of the
Son! That is just wrong.
Some might attempt to harmonize the Trinitarian claim of
"none greater" with Messiah's statement that "the Father is
greater" by adding more explanatory verbiage - but to do so
simply illustrates my point; that the Trinitarian doctrinal
formula trivializes God, rather than aiding a full
revelation of God. We get a better understanding in this
case by ignoring the trinity and focusing on the Scriptures
alone.
"Co-equal"? Again, "co-equal" in what sense? Once again, it
must mean in every sense, because no qualifying statement is
included. Here, the verse already quoted (Jn 14:28) again
seems to challenge the trinity formula, and there are many
other passages as well.
For example, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28
says:
"For he (the Son) must reign until he (the Father) has put
all his enemies under his (the son) feet. The last enemy
that will be abolished is death. For, “He put all things in
subjection under his feet.” But when he says, “All things
are put in subjection,” it is evident that he is excepted
who subjected all things to him. When all things have been
subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be
subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God
may be all in all." 1Cor 15:25-28
Here the Father, in some sense, is in a higher position, to
put all enemies under the Son's feet. Clearly, "co-equal"
does not describe what we are reading here. Further, the
passage directly says that the Son subjects Himself to the
Father.
Can the Son be eternally "co-equal" with the Father while
also "subjected to Him?" If so, the trinity formula gives us
no help in grasping any nuances of truth here. Instead, the
trinity dogma simply trims away all Biblical truth that does
not conform by declaring the Father and the Son to be
"co-equal." Period. Again, if we want to get the broadest
understanding in this area of truth we will have to abandon
the trinity and turn to the Scriptures themselves.
What is the trinity missing that accounts for these
deficiencies? As my book, Holy Order Restored explains, the
trinity doctrine is blind to the patriarchal order of the
Scriptures, as that applies to the Father and the Son. The
Son Himself explains His relationship to the Father in these
patriarchal terms, especially in the Book of John, but the
trinity dogma ignores all of that. When it comes to the
relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the
trinity doctrine is more of an obstacle than a help. I say,
dump the dogma and concentrate on the full message of the
Scriptures themselves.
[What the trinity formula should say is that the Father and
the Son are equal as to Divine nature. This is true. What it
ignores is that they are not, however, equal as to rank in
the Father-Son relationship. On that score Y'shua always
puts His Father above Himself. If you doubt it, read the
Book of John noting the many verses in which the Son submits
Himself to the Father. For more on that you can read
Holy Order Restored by Eliyahu ben David.]
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From Eliyahu
Genesis 34 tells us about Jacob's daughter, Dinah - a curious
teenage girl, who just wanted to get a look at the latest fashions
of the Canaanite women, nearly 4,000 years ago. Like many teens
since then, she apparently thought the limits put on her by her
parents were too restrictive, since she ignored those limits to
visit a neighboring Canaanite city all by herself. By this
relatively innocent act of self-will Dinah exposed herself to
dangers she couldn't imagine and, as if nudging the first of many
dominoes set in a row, initiated a series of events culminating in
unspeakable horrors. While this story is worthy of our interest in
its own right, it is all the more vital since it involves a
prophetic drama for the Remnant of Israel today. All this is
explained in our latest midrash entitled, "Dinah in Wonderland."
Blessings and
Shalom!
Eliyahu ben David
www.tsiyon.org
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